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	<title>Comments on: How many of you have a stack of index cards collecting dust?</title>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-69095</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/#comment-69095</guid>
		<description>I played around with various flash card software (and also with physical flash cards) before trying Supermemo. Since I started using Supermemo two years ago, I have more than 22,000 flashcards entered into it, and I&#039;m loving it. Not only do I study Japanese and Chinese with it, but anything I want to remember I put into the program. As far as language learning goes, LEARNING must take place outside of the program. RECALL/REMEMBERING is what the program helps to do. Flashcards cannot take the place of watching a movie, interacting with people, reading a book, etc., but they are rather the small &quot;nails&quot; that are used to maintain the structure of learned concepts (Words, idioms, kanji, etc.) as time passes. It takes time to strike a balance when using an SRS program, but once that balance is achieved the results are wonderful. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I played around with various flash card software (and also with physical flash cards) before trying Supermemo. Since I started using Supermemo two years ago, I have more than 22,000 flashcards entered into it, and I&#8217;m loving it. Not only do I study Japanese and Chinese with it, but anything I want to remember I put into the program. As far as language learning goes, LEARNING must take place outside of the program. RECALL/REMEMBERING is what the program helps to do. Flashcards cannot take the place of watching a movie, interacting with people, reading a book, etc., but they are rather the small &#8220;nails&#8221; that are used to maintain the structure of learned concepts (Words, idioms, kanji, etc.) as time passes. It takes time to strike a balance when using an SRS program, but once that balance is achieved the results are wonderful. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-69002</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 03:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/#comment-69002</guid>
		<description>Just FYI, I&#039;m trying another round with Anki. Now that I&#039;m back in America, I need the practice. It&#039;s only been a few days, but it&#039;s going well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just FYI, I&#8217;m trying another round with Anki. Now that I&#8217;m back in America, I need the practice. It&#8217;s only been a few days, but it&#8217;s going well.</p>
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		<title>By: kitsu</title>
		<link>http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-68985</link>
		<dc:creator>kitsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/#comment-68985</guid>
		<description>Sort of old post, but I figured I&#039;d post about how Anki is working out for me.  Anki is a fairly simple SRS system with some nice features.  I&#039;ve recently been pushing my reading proficiency pretty hard and feel I&#039;m starting to get somewhere after years of miscellaneous study.

I decided to try Anki after picking up two Nintendo DS consoles, a copy of the Nintendo sonomama jiten and a Japanese copy of Zelda Phantom Hourglass.  I was mucking my way through the game but I caught myself looking up the same words over and over (must have looked up 最近 about a dozen times).  So as I played I started writing down words, their reading, and their meaning on a pad.  It was so much work reading anything anyway that this didn&#039;t noticeably add to slowing down the game.  Then later when I didn&#039;t have time or didn&#039;t feel like playing I would add the words to Anki, if I didn&#039;t have any new words I would go through the cards I had already added.  Also when choosing words to add I tried to only add those that seem useful in the current context (for Zelda things like sword, cave, adventure, etc. along with common words) and when reviewing I tried to write out the hidden parts of the card on paper before revealing (helps to really learn the kanji and improves hand writing too).

I&#039;ve already made it to the end of the game unfortunately, but I&#039;ve already started my next project.  I picked up a Japanese copy of the first Harry Potter book.  The learning curve is a bit steeper on this one, but the same method seems to work.  Read and decipher as much as possible and pull out the most interesting/frustrating words, then add/review when you don&#039;t want to read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sort of old post, but I figured I&#8217;d post about how Anki is working out for me.  Anki is a fairly simple SRS system with some nice features.  I&#8217;ve recently been pushing my reading proficiency pretty hard and feel I&#8217;m starting to get somewhere after years of miscellaneous study.</p>
<p>I decided to try Anki after picking up two Nintendo DS consoles, a copy of the Nintendo sonomama jiten and a Japanese copy of Zelda Phantom Hourglass.  I was mucking my way through the game but I caught myself looking up the same words over and over (must have looked up 最近 about a dozen times).  So as I played I started writing down words, their reading, and their meaning on a pad.  It was so much work reading anything anyway that this didn&#8217;t noticeably add to slowing down the game.  Then later when I didn&#8217;t have time or didn&#8217;t feel like playing I would add the words to Anki, if I didn&#8217;t have any new words I would go through the cards I had already added.  Also when choosing words to add I tried to only add those that seem useful in the current context (for Zelda things like sword, cave, adventure, etc. along with common words) and when reviewing I tried to write out the hidden parts of the card on paper before revealing (helps to really learn the kanji and improves hand writing too).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve already made it to the end of the game unfortunately, but I&#8217;ve already started my next project.  I picked up a Japanese copy of the first Harry Potter book.  The learning curve is a bit steeper on this one, but the same method seems to work.  Read and decipher as much as possible and pull out the most interesting/frustrating words, then add/review when you don&#8217;t want to read.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliott</title>
		<link>http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-65673</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/#comment-65673</guid>
		<description>Hi, 
I’ve been doing evening courses and studying outside of work for a couple of years now and just stumbled across your site.(btw I think it is great!) 
I’ve also recently started to use the spaced repetition programmes and flash cards. Exactly as I’ve read on other comments, at the start SRS appear to be very useful, but then they become very tedious and soon you haven’t used it for a week and have about 100+ cards to revise. 
You write on other posts about the fact there isn’t one tool to learn a language. This I think is the same with the spaced rep program and needs to be placed in amongst your learning arsenal, but also used in the correct way. Having one deck of 1000 words is just going to bore you to death , but breaking them down and sorting them into something that is interesting for you has helped me immensely. For example I’m very interested in films and practice taking about them with my learning exchange partners. I’ve then got a small deck of words and sentences associated with them for practice. I revise them before meeting people to practice. Aren&#039;t SRS just used to optimise the time you spend studying. So you don’t review words/sentences/grammar you remember, but concentrate on the ones you forget more often? 
My deck of words that including business/company recently words was deleted long ago!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
I’ve been doing evening courses and studying outside of work for a couple of years now and just stumbled across your site.(btw I think it is great!)<br />
I’ve also recently started to use the spaced repetition programmes and flash cards. Exactly as I’ve read on other comments, at the start SRS appear to be very useful, but then they become very tedious and soon you haven’t used it for a week and have about 100+ cards to revise.<br />
You write on other posts about the fact there isn’t one tool to learn a language. This I think is the same with the spaced rep program and needs to be placed in amongst your learning arsenal, but also used in the correct way. Having one deck of 1000 words is just going to bore you to death , but breaking them down and sorting them into something that is interesting for you has helped me immensely. For example I’m very interested in films and practice taking about them with my learning exchange partners. I’ve then got a small deck of words and sentences associated with them for practice. I revise them before meeting people to practice. Aren&#8217;t SRS just used to optimise the time you spend studying. So you don’t review words/sentences/grammar you remember, but concentrate on the ones you forget more often?<br />
My deck of words that including business/company recently words was deleted long ago!</p>
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		<title>By: Tae Kim</title>
		<link>http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-63760</link>
		<dc:creator>Tae Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/#comment-63760</guid>
		<description>Actually, I&#039;ve had a better than ever sense of not being proficient from my struggle with Chinese. It&#039;s exactly that frustration that made me realize the inadequacies of things like current SRS programs. Yes, I think the current SRS programs suck and I describe how they could be so much better. I&#039;m not saying SRS itself sucks. I don&#039;t see how it could be so discouraging to think about how things can be improved for the better.

And if you read my comments, you&#039;ll see that I have been more understanding of what Remembering the Kanji is about. I also clarified that I don&#039;t dislike the book itself but rather the ambiguous promises it makes in the Introduction.

I&#039;m sorry you feel my recent posts have been discouraging. Maybe the next post I&#039;m working on would have made you feel better. In any case, I&#039;ve run out of study methods to &quot;shoot down&quot; and have already started posting other topics to blog about but if you feel like there are some things I should be focusing on, I&#039;m all ears.

Finally to clarify, I am not the administrator of this blog. I do not control the ads nor do I receive any money from them. The reason I don&#039;t start my own blog is because I don&#039;t really care about the money and don&#039;t want to spend the time to setup, customize, update, and run my own setup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I&#8217;ve had a better than ever sense of not being proficient from my struggle with Chinese. It&#8217;s exactly that frustration that made me realize the inadequacies of things like current SRS programs. Yes, I think the current SRS programs suck and I describe how they could be so much better. I&#8217;m not saying SRS itself sucks. I don&#8217;t see how it could be so discouraging to think about how things can be improved for the better.</p>
<p>And if you read my comments, you&#8217;ll see that I have been more understanding of what Remembering the Kanji is about. I also clarified that I don&#8217;t dislike the book itself but rather the ambiguous promises it makes in the Introduction.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry you feel my recent posts have been discouraging. Maybe the next post I&#8217;m working on would have made you feel better. In any case, I&#8217;ve run out of study methods to &#8220;shoot down&#8221; and have already started posting other topics to blog about but if you feel like there are some things I should be focusing on, I&#8217;m all ears.</p>
<p>Finally to clarify, I am not the administrator of this blog. I do not control the ads nor do I receive any money from them. The reason I don&#8217;t start my own blog is because I don&#8217;t really care about the money and don&#8217;t want to spend the time to setup, customize, update, and run my own setup.</p>
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		<title>By: Billyclyde</title>
		<link>http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-63758</link>
		<dc:creator>Billyclyde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/#comment-63758</guid>
		<description>Well, I certainly don&#039;t think you&#039;re obligated to do anything, but if you&#039;re not making a dime, you may wish to rethink the ads to the right and monetize in a different way.

Yes to all four of the benchmark questions, and to the question to me, I asked because 1) when I returned to your site yesterday it seemed you were focused on poking holes in others&#039; learning methods rather than articulating one, esp. in the redux flame/linkbait Heisig post, and 2) looking back through the site, the flip iconoclasm turned me off.  I think it&#039;s healthy to question received learning wisdom, but it lately seems like shooting stuff down is mainly what you&#039;re about here, other than more-detailed-than-a-dictionary dictionary-style grammar posts.

This is important-- whether you like it or not, you&#039;re setting yourself up as a teacher here, and an authority.  But I get the sense you don&#039;t remember what it&#039;s like NOT to be proficient.  I first felt so in the Heisig discussion-- you just seemed thick about accepting others&#039; testimony at face value.  The other recent posts have made reading the site more of a downer-- nothing&#039;s good enough, &quot;I think they all suck... you&#039;re wasting your time,&quot; as you wrote above.  As a reader, the benefits of visiting the site (which I&#039;ve used for a good two years) have been outweighed by how discouraging it has become to me, for both its tone and content.  That&#039;s all.  I was out for a while after the last Heisig thing, and now I&#039;m out for good.

Thanks for the grammar guide, though, and best of luck to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I certainly don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re obligated to do anything, but if you&#8217;re not making a dime, you may wish to rethink the ads to the right and monetize in a different way.</p>
<p>Yes to all four of the benchmark questions, and to the question to me, I asked because 1) when I returned to your site yesterday it seemed you were focused on poking holes in others&#8217; learning methods rather than articulating one, esp. in the redux flame/linkbait Heisig post, and 2) looking back through the site, the flip iconoclasm turned me off.  I think it&#8217;s healthy to question received learning wisdom, but it lately seems like shooting stuff down is mainly what you&#8217;re about here, other than more-detailed-than-a-dictionary dictionary-style grammar posts.</p>
<p>This is important&#8211; whether you like it or not, you&#8217;re setting yourself up as a teacher here, and an authority.  But I get the sense you don&#8217;t remember what it&#8217;s like NOT to be proficient.  I first felt so in the Heisig discussion&#8211; you just seemed thick about accepting others&#8217; testimony at face value.  The other recent posts have made reading the site more of a downer&#8211; nothing&#8217;s good enough, &#8220;I think they all suck&#8230; you&#8217;re wasting your time,&#8221; as you wrote above.  As a reader, the benefits of visiting the site (which I&#8217;ve used for a good two years) have been outweighed by how discouraging it has become to me, for both its tone and content.  That&#8217;s all.  I was out for a while after the last Heisig thing, and now I&#8217;m out for good.</p>
<p>Thanks for the grammar guide, though, and best of luck to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Tae Kim</title>
		<link>http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-63756</link>
		<dc:creator>Tae Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 21:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/#comment-63756</guid>
		<description>I never said don&#039;t use Heisig and SRS. I wanted to hear why people were using things that didn&#039;t work for me. In fact, I&#039;m working on a post talking about when using Heisig is good. The comments have helped me understand the type of people Heisig is for. Also, I&#039;ve already posted about the shortcomings of current SRS software and what can be done to improve it not that SRS is bad altogether.

http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-18/read-this-before-you-build-yet-another-index-card-programwebsite/

I am even working quietly on such a system. Creating a &quot;positive contribution&quot; takes a lot of time and not something I can just whip up especially with a full-time job. The guide itself has taken many years of work, which I gave away for free. While I enjoy working on these things to help people learn Japanese, it seems strange that you feel I&#039;m obligated to contribute something else when I don&#039;t get a single dime from these efforts.

So here&#039;s my question for you. If SRS and Heisig are working for you, why do you ask me how to get where I am? Is it working or no? And if you want to know what my methods are, you might try reading through this blog since it&#039;s a topic I already covered.

http://nihongo.3yen.com/2006-10-27/tae-kims-language-studying-tips/

Here&#039;s a simple benchmark you can try to see if you&#039;re using my &quot;method&quot; and I put it in quotes because I consider it more &quot;common sense&quot;.

1. Do you meet with Japanese speakers and actually practice speaking and listening with real people?

2. Do you read or at least try to read written Japanese in some form?

3. Do you often use a dictionary to lookup unfamiliar words (preferably electronic or online)?

And most importantly: 4. Is what you&#039;re studying enjoyable and interesting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never said don&#8217;t use Heisig and SRS. I wanted to hear why people were using things that didn&#8217;t work for me. In fact, I&#8217;m working on a post talking about when using Heisig is good. The comments have helped me understand the type of people Heisig is for. Also, I&#8217;ve already posted about the shortcomings of current SRS software and what can be done to improve it not that SRS is bad altogether.</p>
<p><a href="http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-18/read-this-before-you-build-yet-another-index-card-programwebsite/" rel="nofollow">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-18/read-this-before-you-build-yet-another-index-card-programwebsite/</a></p>
<p>I am even working quietly on such a system. Creating a &#8220;positive contribution&#8221; takes a lot of time and not something I can just whip up especially with a full-time job. The guide itself has taken many years of work, which I gave away for free. While I enjoy working on these things to help people learn Japanese, it seems strange that you feel I&#8217;m obligated to contribute something else when I don&#8217;t get a single dime from these efforts.</p>
<p>So here&#8217;s my question for you. If SRS and Heisig are working for you, why do you ask me how to get where I am? Is it working or no? And if you want to know what my methods are, you might try reading through this blog since it&#8217;s a topic I already covered.</p>
<p><a href="http://nihongo.3yen.com/2006-10-27/tae-kims-language-studying-tips/" rel="nofollow">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2006-10-27/tae-kims-language-studying-tips/</a></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a simple benchmark you can try to see if you&#8217;re using my &#8220;method&#8221; and I put it in quotes because I consider it more &#8220;common sense&#8221;.</p>
<p>1. Do you meet with Japanese speakers and actually practice speaking and listening with real people?</p>
<p>2. Do you read or at least try to read written Japanese in some form?</p>
<p>3. Do you often use a dictionary to lookup unfamiliar words (preferably electronic or online)?</p>
<p>And most importantly: 4. Is what you&#8217;re studying enjoyable and interesting?</p>
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		<title>By: Billyclyde</title>
		<link>http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-63728</link>
		<dc:creator>Billyclyde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 05:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/#comment-63728</guid>
		<description>Tae Kim, I have used an SRS effectively for coming in on a year.  It works for me, whereas paper cards don&#039;t (hassle).  You probably never needed one, as you never needed Heisig either.  I have.

A question: what&#039;s your one positive contribution for learning Japanese-- what&#039;s your method?  Of late, you have taken more of a gadfly&#039;s role, poking holes in study methods popular on the Internet you haven&#039;t needed (or just refuse to understand because you haven&#039;t needed them? really, take our word for it), but I haven&#039;t seen it backed up with a positive contribution.

So the question: if I can&#039;t use Heisig or SRS cards to get where I want to be-- which is where you are-- how do I get there?  Read your grammar guide &amp; I&#039;m good to go?  Did it just &quot;click&quot; magically for you early on, and should I reasonably expect the same for me?

I ask, respectfully, because I have valued your writing on language, but as a reader/learner I find your gadfly role not too useful, however enjoyable it may be for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tae Kim, I have used an SRS effectively for coming in on a year.  It works for me, whereas paper cards don&#8217;t (hassle).  You probably never needed one, as you never needed Heisig either.  I have.</p>
<p>A question: what&#8217;s your one positive contribution for learning Japanese&#8211; what&#8217;s your method?  Of late, you have taken more of a gadfly&#8217;s role, poking holes in study methods popular on the Internet you haven&#8217;t needed (or just refuse to understand because you haven&#8217;t needed them? really, take our word for it), but I haven&#8217;t seen it backed up with a positive contribution.</p>
<p>So the question: if I can&#8217;t use Heisig or SRS cards to get where I want to be&#8211; which is where you are&#8211; how do I get there?  Read your grammar guide &amp; I&#8217;m good to go?  Did it just &#8220;click&#8221; magically for you early on, and should I reasonably expect the same for me?</p>
<p>I ask, respectfully, because I have valued your writing on language, but as a reader/learner I find your gadfly role not too useful, however enjoyable it may be for you.</p>
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		<title>By: James Stuber</title>
		<link>http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-63537</link>
		<dc:creator>James Stuber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/#comment-63537</guid>
		<description>Also, about the sharing bit, Fabrice of www.kanji.koohii.com is working on a sentence sharing system which should be released soon. It&#039;ll have features that incorporate Heisig&#039;s method (which I know you don&#039;t like), but it could still be used by people using other methods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, about the sharing bit, Fabrice of <a href="http://www.kanji.koohii.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.kanji.koohii.com</a> is working on a sentence sharing system which should be released soon. It&#8217;ll have features that incorporate Heisig&#8217;s method (which I know you don&#8217;t like), but it could still be used by people using other methods.</p>
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		<title>By: James Stuber</title>
		<link>http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/comment-page-1/#comment-63536</link>
		<dc:creator>James Stuber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-12-19/how-many-of-you-have-a-stack-of-index-cards-collecting-dust/#comment-63536</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been using an SRS for 6 or so months now and still use it everyday. 
I used it for kanji and now I use sentences with Japanese definitions in the answer box ala alljapaneseallthetime.com
I never stop reading something to pick out sentences; I usually mark it in some way and go &#039;collect&#039; all of the sentences later in one go.
While SRS aren&#039;t exactly the epitome of fun, for me they are so much more effective at picking up new vocabulary that not using them would be an absurd waste of time.
Different Strokes for different folks I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been using an SRS for 6 or so months now and still use it everyday.<br />
I used it for kanji and now I use sentences with Japanese definitions in the answer box ala alljapaneseallthetime.com<br />
I never stop reading something to pick out sentences; I usually mark it in some way and go &#8216;collect&#8217; all of the sentences later in one go.<br />
While SRS aren&#8217;t exactly the epitome of fun, for me they are so much more effective at picking up new vocabulary that not using them would be an absurd waste of time.<br />
Different Strokes for different folks I suppose.</p>
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